What is a good leader?

Just a thought.... Do you think that we as Christians should set good examples? I have recently been shocked at some comments made by local leaders... like one Pastor approached me and said something that was very unsetting with me .. he asked a question and cursed during the question. I understand that noone is perfect and we all mess up... but should we not try very hard to be Christlike? They are so many fleshly men and women of God today... we must be different if we wish to have an impact for Christ.

[plantsman]

The problem lies in the fact that we can't be Christlike through our own efforts and attempts, as both are inadequate and insufficient. The degree to which one becomes Christlike correlates perfectly with the degree to which the individual has died to himself. Personally, I find it very refreshing to find a pastor that shows his inadequacies - most, if not all, of the ones I know are too busy playing the part of someone who has his act together, who has overcome all temptations, and dwells in a higher spiritual plane than anyone else. In a nutshell, I'd rather sit down and have a discussion with a real pastor who doesn't mind showing his imperfections than one who is content on playing the part of someone who is above sin. Misguided self-righteousness entraps the individual and evokes a false condemnation to those who know they aren't perfect.

I'm not promoting a license to do whatever one chooses. All believers should make effort to live a Christlike life. But let's be honest and open in dealing with one another. Such dialogue is absolutely crucial for the edifying and encouragement of one another.

[the_alienist]

I totally agree with you, it all lies in being HUMBLE.

[plantsman]

Yes sir, that it does.

W.

[imported_ut1]

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W.

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I disagree with your assesment .... it is behavior like this that turns people away. I agree that it is the spirit of God that enables us to be Christ like.. and die to ourselves. We all have temptations ect; but that does not mean that we act out on them... especially in front of people. I agree that no one is perfect but we are presenting Christ to people in the world... some may not know God and his character.. so it is important to potray him in a Godly manner. For me I understand when we mess up that God does not change... but some do not realize this. So for you to say that type of behavior is needed... I disagree!

I might be wrong here... but How I interept what you are saying is messing up is part of being humble? Well when we mess up it does help us to swallow our pride.... but to do it to humble ourselves is not the proper way to do it. The goal here is to fight of the urge to sin... sometimes no matter how hard we try it still happens.. I know... but we must not give up and say it is hopless.... we can do all thing through Christ who gives us strength... not saying we will not sin... just saying that we have already overcome sin through Jesus. In other words we need to put forth more effort in doing so.

[plantsman]

Since you're a traditionalist, I'm sure you disagree. I realize the traditional church in America is far from the Biblical model; most of what we see in the traditional church today is straight from the Constantinian period and is a direct result of his influence. George Barna's research shows that the largest movement within the American church today is the vast number of people leaving this traditional setting. They haven't backslidden, but have become tired of the fruitless efforts that they see continually within the church building. They are opting for a home church environment, etc. where the control and ideas of man are minimal. They are in search of truth.

I've found that honesty doesn't turn people away. Rather, it's the superficial, self-righteous attitudes (and I'm not saying you are, for I don't know you)that are so prevalent today that have become a pitfall to so many. Again, I know that no one is perfect, and when they drop that guard and let me see the real "them", then I find it very refreshing and am thus better able to have a heart-to-heat talk with them than I would if they maintain a false front.

I do not know what you mean by tradionalist... I do not beleive that God and his word changes based on the generation that we decide to go away from Godly actions. I understand that sometimes Pastor's and other leaders try to control members... I have seen it... they are supposed to serve and not rule over... but yes it happens. When you say they are leaving the traditional setting and going elsewhere.... all I see is them chasing after a false doctrine that says speaking in tongues is greater than anything else or falling out or down... this is the true sign that you are a true follower... the charasmatic movement. Which is not Biblical... but anyway what do you mean by fruitless efforts? Honesty should not turn people away.. you are right. There is nothing wrong with trying to live a holy life through Christ... remember sin once taking in and dwelled on then acted out is sin... so in other words I could be struggling with something and still not act up on it. Self Righteous attitude says that I have not sinned and will not sin... I understand that sin is ever present not only in my life but in the world... but it does not mean that we just do it because we have an idea that it is okay because it is going to happen anyway. All I am saying is we need to be good genuine examples.. this comes from spending time with God... it is not putting on an act... just allowing Gods word to work through us.